Transcript
Anna Kizito (00:00)
The Disability and Housing Narrative Change Cohort is a year-long virtual program bringing together disabled leaders from across the country to share and amplify their unique housing experiences.
Facilitated by staff with lived experience, the cohort works to shift what we call dominant narratives challenging ableist policies and practices that drive exclusion. Cohort members write their personal stories, engage with narrative change experts, receive peer support, and gain training on using storytelling as a tool to advocate for disability-forward housing policy and engage with the media. We’re excited to bring you along for a conversation with one of the most groundbreaking storytellers of our time: Keah Brown.
Keah Brown is an activist, journalist, author, actress, and screenwriter. She is the creator of the viral hashtag, hashtag disabled and cute, and one of The Kelsey’s newest board members. Her work has appeared in publications like Teen Vogue, Elle, and Harper’s Bazaar, and she has published three books, the essay collection, The Pretty One, the children’s picture book, Sam’s Super Seats, and the young adult novel, The Secret Summer Promise, which you can order anywhere you get your books.
Keah has a bachelor’s degree in journalism, loves TV and film, and you can follow her on X, formerly known as Twitter, and Instagram, at Keah underscore Maria.
I’m Anna Kizito your host and The Kelsey’s Communications Manager. We hope you enjoy listening to this episode as much as we loved recording it. Enjoy.
[Upbeat Intro Music Plays]
Anna Kizito
All right, well, welcome, Keah, to the Disability and Housing Narrative Change Cohort. We’re so excited to host you for this chat. thank you for being willing to chat with us today. Of course, I’m so excited to be here and talk. We just wanna start off with kind of your background. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Keah Brown
Absolutely. So I am a journalist and an author. I got my degree in journalism in 2013 with a minor in creative writing. And a lot of the work that I do focuses on identity. I love trying to talk to people and figure out what makes us who we are and why. I’ve written three books, The Pretty One, which is an essay collection, Sam’s Super Seats, which is a children’s picture book. And then The Secret Summer Promise, which is a young adult queer YA romance novel. And I really like love talking to people, which is why I became a journalist. I am a cheesecake lover. I am a super, super, super fan of Paramore, the band, Drew Barrymore and Mandy Moore. I call it the “House of More.” I’m just really a person who loves pop culture and loves to find ways to connect with people.
Anna Kizito
Thank you for sharing that. And I guess on that perfect segue, I’m curious if there are any stories in pop culture or just the news recently that’s changed your mind. We work a lot with narrative and we’re trying to shift the narrative around disability and housing. But I’m curious if any stories piqued your interest or just made you rethink something or change your own internal narrative recently.
Keah Brown
Absolutely. I think I’m a big fan of Heartstopper. Look, I love Heartstopper. I think it’s a fantastic show and I just finished the most recent season. And I guess I had a lot of preconceived notions, even as a queer person, about what aromanticness is and what it’s like to be asexual. And it wasn’t until I was watching the show that I was like, I don’t know. I don’t know what I thought it was, but it wasn’t. I think it’s much more vast than I ever thought possible. And I think that that relates a lot to disability because sometimes we see marginalized groups and marginalized identities as a monolith, but nothing ever actually is. And so I went and did my own sort of research on what asexuality is and what it means to be aromantic. I talked to my friends who are asexual and like, they very kindly let me ask them questions just so that I could have for my own, you know, curiosity and my own thoughts and just have more information. And I think it really changed my mind about what it looks like for somebody who might be aromantic or might be asexual because I am very much of a deeply romantic person. I love romance, so to see the other side of it and understand what it’s like for somebody who isn’t constantly thinking about it, that just to learn their experience was really cool.
Anna Kizito
Thank you for that. Yeah, that is super… I haven’t seen that show, but now I’m very interested. Is that a Netflix show? Yes. Yes. I guess to that end, mean, thank you for sharing about how your mind was changed and the research that you did after watching the show. I think a lot of people probably had that experience in 2017 and after when you created the viral hashtag, #DisabledAndCute.
I’m just curious how it felt for you and what you thought when you saw, when you noticed that people were joining in and that this hashtag could really change some of the conversations people were having online about disability.
Keah Brown
I mean, it was really cool. I said this to you earlier, but I’m a professional yapper. Like my favorite thing to do is to yap. And so when I created Disabled and Cute, I was simply yapping about how it felt good for the first time in my life to to feel comfortable in my body and in my skin and in my identity. I wanted to celebrate it. So I put four pictures up on Twitter that is now called X, but I refuse to call it X. And I was like, I hope people use it. I thought that maybe like four people max were gonna use the hashtag and they were all gonna be my friends. But when it went viral, I was like, “Oh!” this is awesome. I’m like being interviewed and being on the other side of that is also really funny for me because I’m like, it is my job literally to interview people and to yap and to ask them questions and so to be on the other side of that was really, really cool. And like just to know that something that I created really in celebration of myself felt like it gave other disabled people permission to start their own journeys of self-love and to be able to give that to a community that is often told, you know, that we don’t belong and our stories don’t matter, and you know, we’re too much of a quote unquote burden was really nice because not only did I help shift my own frame of thought, you know, I helped other people as well. And I think that’s the best thing that came out of the hashtag.
Anna Kizito
Yeah, that’s amazing. And I’m, you know, you there’s probably a reason you’re a professional yapper. I know you were joking earlier but, you tell stories so beautifully. So Yeah, I’m very happy to be on this side of the yap, You did write in Essence that some people were upset by you using the word cute You wrote, “However, some members of the community were upset with my use of the word cute, because that word can be very infantilizing when non-disabled people call us cute when we do anything.”
You go on to say, “those few angry people began attacking me personally and I took it to heart.” You went on to write though that you ultimately decided that you wanted to reclaim that word. And I’m sure there are a lot of storytellers across communities who feel misunderstood just because of the way they authentically share their stories. what you would say, what advice you’d give to them, to the people who may be receiving backlash for how they’re expressing themselves.
Keah Brown
I think I would just say keep doing it. That’s how you know you’re on the right road. People are so uncomfortable when you understand and know yourself and that discomfort is none of your business. Like what I learned with the whole backlash about me using the word cute was like, you can’t please everyone. And so knowing that as long as you’re not causing anyone any physical harm or emotional harm, you really have to focus on pleasing yourself because at the end of the day, you’re the person that has to be with you all the time. And “cute” was the word that I just felt most comfortable with.
You know, people did push back on it, but I just was like, I’m not gonna use a word that I’m not comfortable using or feel yet in this journey to make other people happy. And so I think look at it as if there are people upset about you doing something that is really cool and really wonderful and really, you know, for yourself, then you’re on the right track because it’s not really about the word. Like some people were really just jealous that I thought of it first because there was like a huge influx of disabled and blank hashtags created just after mine went viral. And I think you just have to really follow your gut and trust yourself.
To know that what you’re doing and what you believe and the thing that you’re fighting for is worth fighting for, whether you have detractors or not. And honestly, you could say, I love the sky. The sky is blue and I’m glad the sun is out and somebody is going to come say, “So you hate winter? So you hate snow? So you don’t like the nighttime? What do you have against stars?” You know, so it’s always going to be something that somebody feels like you’re leaving out. So as long as you’re you know, sticking true to what you believe and what matters to you, that’s what’s most important. You just have to sort of shut out the people that will be there to detract what you’re working toward for a variety of reasons.
Anna Kizito
That’s really good advice. And I just, I wonder are there tools that you have that help you stay true to who you are and your voice when you write for people who may understand what you’ve lived through and for people who may not understand at all what you’ve gone through? How do you stay authentic while trying to account for people who might not understand certain nuances?
Keah Brown
That’s a fantastic question. I think what I try to do is one, I think it helps to get offline to remember that there is more to it than the internet. You know, I have a lot of friends and family that keep me grounded and we are often laughing about silly things I’ve done over the years, like falling into a row of toilet paper at Walmart and the guy would be like, “Just leave it. I’ll pick it up.” I have friends and family who remind me that, you know I am more than what the internet might see or what they think they might know. And also what really helps me is just like, like what really grounds me is music. I can’t sing, but you know, that’s because God gives his greatest battles to his strongest soldiers. And if I could sing, I would take over the world. And so he’s like, I got to level her out a bit.
But I really lean on music. I lean on my family and friends. I’ve started journaling, which helps a bunch. I’m also in therapy and on meds. I think that that’s also really important to just listen to your body and allow yourself to remember that all of it is temporary and life is too short to do something that doesn’t feel like you in service of someone else. One of the things that I’ve been working on for years in therapy is just understanding that I am who I am and I’ll make mistakes. I’m human, I’m real, but as long as I’m being true to the person I wanna be, that’s what matters most. I think a lot of times what happens is we go on the internet and we see people’s highlight reels and we’re like, “Oh, their life must be perfect. They’ve got X, Y, and Z.” I know I do it. You know, I follow fellow authors. and fellow journalists and I’m like, “Oh my God, they got this really cool profile or their book is doing really well and it’s a best seller.” And then I look at my stuff and I’m like, my stuff isn’t that.
But I think their greatness and their wins does not necessarily mean my lack. And I try really hard to remember that there’s more to life than an accolade. And even though they can be nice, I think what’s most important is remembering that like, at the end of the day, there are people who love me for me, not for the things that I can create or not for the function of capitalism. And that’s what really helps.
Anna Kizito
That’s, first of all, amazing that you intentionally surround yourself with all the things, with the people that you love, music, just joy and pleasure, it sounds like. Yeah, yeah. Especially because I think something we recognize a lot in the Cohort [is] that storytelling is very hard work and it’s emotionally taxing. It’s sometimes, it feels like a long road to actually shifting conversations. And so we’re trying to bring people with us so that… we don’t wanna be the only people doing this work essentially.
Keah Brown
Right, exactly. Cause it’s lonely being the only one in the room.
Anna Kizito
Absolutely. So I’m curious what role you see allies playing in challenging. dominant narratives about disability.
Keah Brown
I think the really wonderful thing about an ally is that they’re usually in positions of power so that they can say something oftentimes when we can’t, you know? Like I think the role of the ally is to be on the front lines next to us and to use their voice to say the things that we can’t, you know? Oftentimes it’s the ally that’s in the room where things happen. It’s really about, you know, putting your hand out and pulling up the next person and physically using your, your body, but your privilege to say, Hey, I also want this person to be here and that person to be here. It really is about saying, it’s about speaking up and not saying after the fact, well, I’m sorry that happened. That was so terrible. It’s like, no, you need to say something in the moment because platitudes after the fact don’t help make change possible.
I think it really is the job of the ally to say something when they see something and to understand that whatever position of power that they’re in, they can use that to influence these sorts of things. Like storytelling is so important, you know, and disabled people get scraps as is, right? But normally it’s like you see a disabled person and it’s like they’re a white disabled person who hates themselves because some non-disabled person doesn’t like them back. But it’s like, if we had disabled people in the writing rooms for these shows and movies and in these, you know, places of privilege where they can green light things, it wouldn’t be so monumental for somebody to merely exist. It would be like oh this is a real life human being with a real life story, real life thoughts and hopes and dreams outside of disability while also being disabled. So
I think it really is the job of the ally to use their privilege to push forward the narrative of disabled people and to not take over and take the mic from them, but to give them the mic. And if somebody comes and tries to take it, be the person standing like you are at a velvet rope and say, nope, they get to speak. I’m letting them speak for as long as they want to. It’s not, you don’t get to take that from them. We really need a lot of, a lot more strong arming, think, you know, less, less, “oh I hope things get better” and “rooting for you” and more action.
Anna Kizito
Totally, I love that visual, that imagery of just of the microphone relating narrative shift to spaces because space is a part of the conversation. Who’s taking up space? Who’s allowed to take up space? I love that you even mentioned time because I think there’s just this idea that you only have so much time and there’s only so much room. There’s only so much space for your stories. So there’s even this like strange competitive nature in media too.
Keah Brown
Absolutely. And I think that’s the thing that frustrates me the most, because I’m like, again, who wants to be the only one in the room? And then also if the table is not big enough, break it and build a bigger table. Like I don’t, I don’t subscribe to the idea that like we should be pulling up lawn chairs to the table and hoping to squeeze in or knocking on a window and seeing who will let us in the door. We need to build a bigger table. And I think in order for us to do that, we need allies who are like, no, here’s the space and time I’m giving these people, this group of people, they don’t have it. And you’re going to listen whether you want to or not. That’s how true change will happen. It’s like with force.
Anna Kizito
Do you see this shift happening in media, a narrative shift happening around the stories that are being told about or even by disabled people?
Keah Brown
Yes and no. Yes, because I think about shows like Ryan O’Connell’s special, and I think about actors and actresses like Danielle who… I’m blanking on her last name, but she’s lovely and she’s wonderful. And she was in the newest Spider-Man movie, the animated one. She’s amazing. She does brilliant work, like guest spots. And I think the thing is like, yeah, we see it a little more, but we still have so much, so much more to go, so much more to do. I guess just speaking for myself, like one of my dreams is to be an actress, right? Like I wanna act in something and so maybe this is coming from a place of bias but we do have such a long way to go in terms of just allowing disabled people to exist and not only exist but to live and not only to live but to thrive because so often it’s like the disabled character you know is only there to provide emotional development for the non-disabled character.
It’s the character that’s there for a laugh and then she’s then she’s gone or there for a moment and then he has to die. And it’s really frustrating because it’s like, I know so many disabled people who just live their lives, myself included, you know, they’re funny, they’re smart, they’re wonderful, they have friends who love them and, you know, hookups and they have like all these things that I don’t think our media and entertainment has yet to genuinely explore without a lens of pity attached to it. So I do think that there are some strides being made, but it’s not nearly enough.
Anna Kizito
I’m curious about, and you know you might’ve alluded to this already in talking about your aspirations to be an actress, but, what role do you hope to play in changing the narratives around disability, especially in media?
Keah Brown
Well, like I said, I would love, love, love to act, but also I would love to write those stories and it really is about opportunity. I think for me, Hollywood is so, and not even Hollywood, I guess I could just say like the entertainment industry in general is so focused on like reboots and sequels and you know, this thing, that sort of tapping into nostalgia. But there are so many of us with great IP, with, you know, great ideas. It’s just about the opportunity to share them with the world. And so for me, it’s like, yeah, I’d love to act and I’d love to write those things and I’d love to consult and I think it really is just about having access to the places where stories are told so that more people can understand the importance of just telling stories of disabled people so that they can understand that we live rich, full lives and it’s not about pity. I think particularly too with housing stuff, like if in the offset that you see, in the odd, you know, offset that you see a disabled person in a home, on TV, it’s always very quick, never really accessible. And I think that that really just goes to show you that people don’t think about the interior lives of disabled people. And for me, that starts and stops and can change via the media because the media is often a reflection, or it’s supposed to be anyway, a reflection of what the world is and who’s in it. And I think when we have crises like housing and, and you know, issues with home care and health aid workers and all of that stuff is like, that’s not talked about because the disabled person is only there for a few minutes. And I think, for me, it would be really, really cool to just populate the world with, rom coms about disabled people and TV shows about disabled people and dramas and it’s like, comedies and all of that so that people could understand that us being disabled doesn’t mean that we’re less like you. It means that we deserve the chance to also tell our stories. And I think that that starts really with the media because the media is the largest reflection of the world that we have and we deserve to be a part of it.
Anna Kizito
I feel like I can already get a sense of your answer based on what you just said about housing and the interior lives of disabled folks. But I do want to note that you are a member of our board, of The Kelsey’s board. I just want to extend a welcome to you. I can say that we were all really excited when we found out that you would be joining and are, yeah, just so privileged to learn from you and work alongside you. But I’m curious about why you believe in disability-forward housing specifically and what really made you want to join the movement.
Keah Brown
First of all, I love being on The Kelsey Board and I’m so excited to work alongside you and to learn while I also teach. For me, it was so important because, and I said this as I was coming in, I currently been applying for accessible housing. Right? Like, and I think it is imperative because in my current apartment, it’s not accessible. There’s no working elevators. I live on the second floor, thank goodness. So it’s not that many steps, but lugging laundry up and down the stairs, it just, it takes a toll on my body. And I think that people assume accessible housing is just an accessible toilet and a bigger shower, but, it it means more than that. It means safety. It means, you know, feeling like you have a place you can go to where you belong. It’s not a question of will this thing be accessible, it’s supposed to be.
And I think all disabled people deserve the chance to live and be somewhere where they don’t have to explain their access needs, where they don’t have to say, “man, I hope that I can get in to this building with my wheelchair,” or “man, I hope that, you know, this railing on these stairs isn’t broke so that I can safely walk up them,” or you know, “man, I hope that there’s seating,” because I think again about the interior lives of disabled people and our lives are so valuable and they’re so interesting and intricate and fun. And I personally feel like if I can get into affordable housing, it would change everything. It would be better for my mental health, for my physical health. It would mean that I was able to be in community with people who understand my lived experience. It would mean that I would be able to be less alone. I think oftentimes disability can feel so isolating.
And when you have programs like The Kelsey and buildings like The Kelsey creates, it’s like, not only are you getting a safe place to live and lay your head and exist, but you get to be in community with other people who, you know, might share your experiences. You get to learn from other people who, you know, might not share your exact experience, but completely understand why you need that housing. It goes far beyond just an accessible toilet and shower. It is about community and joy and the right to be mentally well and I think especially now too because it’s World Mental Health Day, I think so much about my mental health and so much about, you know, being in therapy and being a person who takes mental health meds. Like I am always trying to find ways to uplift myself. You know, I’m always trying to find ways to be kind and to do things that make me feel fulfilled. And I think that we don’t see that enough in mainstream media. We don’t see disabled people who are trying to just live and survive and thrive. We see them in one-off things.
And so when you think about the interior lives of disabled people, it’s that we have friends and family who love us and we go out to restaurants and we go on dates and we do karaoke and we go to concerts. And I just think the thing for me is like, we deserve a world that is accessible to all of us, right? But I think that starts at home. And so it’s really important because your home is where you can recharge. You know, your home is where you can feel safe. It’s supposed to be a sanctuary. And to me, the idea that disabled people deserve an accessible sanctuary is the bare minimum. Like, of course that’s what they deserve. Of course it’s what we deserve. Because we exist every day in a world that’s not designed for us. So the least we could do is come home and feel safe, seen, and understood in the place where we lay our heads.
Anna Kizito
This has been absolutely wonderful. Thank you so much again for your time. We just, we’re just so thrilled to have you on the board and, as a leader and mentor at the cohort. So thank you so much again.
Keah Brown
Oh my God, you are so welcome. Like this is work I truly, truly believe in. And I’m so excited to be a small part of making a real difference.
[Upbeat Outro Music Plays]