In our conversation with The Nonprofit Report, our co-founder and CEO, Micaela, and board members Justin Tsang and Capri Roth shared powerful insights on The Kelsey’s history and approach to developing housing.
Part of their “Homelessness in America” series, they discuss The Kelsey’s founding; the critical role of inclusive design across housing, transit, and beyond; and the impact of resources like the Inclusive Design Standards. The conversation also highlights how, when implemented early in the development process, a disability-forward lens creates more equitable and accessible communities for everyone.
Tune in to the episode to learn more about how we’re building a future where affordable, accessible, and inclusive housing is the norm, not the exception.
Transcript
Mark Oppenheim
Welcome to the Nonprofit Report, your Update on Nonprofit organizations, issues, and leaders, viewable on YouTube and About Time TV. Today, I’m delighted to introduce the leadership team of The Kelsey. We’ll talk a little bit about The Kelsey in a moment, but that leadership team consists of Micaela Connery, Co-founder and CEO, Justin Tsang, who is a board member and also a transportation planner at L.A. Metro, and Capri Roth, a Board Member and also the Executive Vice President of Real Estate Development at East Bay Asian Local Development Corporation, EBALDC. It’s great to see you all here to talk about this magnificent organization, The Kelsey, and also to talk about the whole question of how do we ensure that people are disabled, receive housing and are set up for their own success in life.
Thank you so much. Micaela and team for helping us to understand this really important issue. So, Micaela, I’d like to, to just sort of jump in because The Kelsey is actually-it actually means something. The name itself means something. Could you talk a little bit about Kelsey O’Connor and the reason that The Kelsey is named for Kelsey?
Micaela Connery
Yeah, absolutely. One of my favorite things to talk about. So our Co-Founder, Kelsey, was my cousin and friend, and, she and I were born three months apart, and so kind of went through every life milestone together. And Kelsey was a person who lived with multiple significant disabilities. She used 24 hour care. She used modified sign language to communicate. She had some medical support needs. And so she, lived with disabilities that, you know, impacted a lot of elements of her life. And when she became an adult, there was a huge gap in what options were available to her for community-based housing. And that was despite actually growing up in very inclusive in integrated settings in her schools and her church and her recreation. Yet, when she became an adult, those options were super limited. And what I initially thought was just, issue specific to who Kelsey was and where she lived or what resources were available, I learned very quickly, were not specific to Kelsey, but were, an example of a much larger systemic issue impacting the, you know, 70 million Americans with disabilities, Kelsey being one of them, but not the only one facing, housing barriers. And so, the organization, The Kelsey, formed out of her advocacy and leadership. And in her legacy. And, you know, her legacy is, is embedded across a lot of different areas that we do. But I’d also say in particular, you know, making sure that we build disability forward housing where disabled people are a part of the process and solution and leadership and advocacy and, and shaping of those solutions. And in particular, that our housing opportunities include people with higher support needs. And, you know, among all types of disability that we’re not leaving out folks who use supportive services and we really anchored our disability forward housing models, on including that. And last but not least, I also mentioned that Kelsey also used a wheelchair. So she had physical, she had developmental, she had health related, she had sensory-she had all different types of disabilities. And so, you’ll also see through Kelsey’s legacy this anchoring on cross disability, really making sure that we aren’t segmenting people by a particular diagnosis or this or that, but really building models that anchor on disability and can, serve the diversity of access, and, and community living needs.
Mark
So Justin, as an L.A. metro planner that it’s really interesting that you’re involved with this particular organization. When I get up from this desk, I’m sitting in a chair. I can get up. I’m ambulatory. I don’t need a wheelchair. I can then walk to my car and I can drive on a road. If I took public transportation, I can stand in line and take public transportation. I mean, that’s kind of your world, right? Your world is is serving people like me. And we’re talk…Micaela is talking about another world where somebody can’t just get up, cannot just walk over to that car, cannot just get into it, cannot just drive. And now you….as an L.A. metro planner, you’re placing yourself in the crossfire of people who are not generally thought about, by people like yourself. Talk a little bit about your daily job, your day job, and how this involvement on the board enriches your own thinking of how Los Angeles. metro ought to work for everyone..
Justin Tsang
Sure. I just want to give a disclaimer that, my-these are mine alone and not of the agency. But I would say that, as I like to say, as a disabled transportation planner, part of my work is involved with a coalition group that is partnered with metro. And so every single month I work with a coalition that includes staff members, disabled advocates from independent living centers, as well as users and committee members who are part of our Accessibility Council. And so we talk about various initiatives, ranging from things from fairs to the 28’ Olympics in terms of planning emergency planning. But all of these factors are critical to mobility for the same people. And what makes The Kelsey so unique is its unique integration of affordable, accessible housing as well as advocacy. I lived as a, person facing multiple housing barriers, from applying housing to securing housing. And unfortunately, before I attended college, I did live in a institution for disabled people. But after graduating, I was in a HUD internship in DC where I learned more about, different housing programs, particularly on Section 811, which is specific for, disability needs. And, you know, it is always a pleasure, learning about the work that The Kelsey does. And, The Kelsey’s mission has always been, truly in my heart as something that’s innovative and a critical need for the disabled community.
Mark
So when you talk about disability, you’re talking about different types of abilities and different, needs. So for example, if I have visual impairments, right, I have certain needs. If I have hearing impairments, I have certain needs. If I have a physical issue I live with, with, amputation or I live with a neurological disorder, that means that I don’t…I’m not able to necessarily control my musculature, or I have digestive issues or I have some other, some other issues, like you’re thinking in terms of that person’s life. It might not be your life, but it’s you’re thinking about that person’s life in that person’s navigation,.isn’t it?
Justin
Correct. You know, disability is not a monolith. There are many people with different socioeconomic status as well as different lived experience in terms of how they get to places from their own homes. And so, we have to think of all these kind of solutions that have to work together.
Mark
So, you know, when I asked Justin, Capri about, about this whole idea of metro planning and how metro planning very often is done for the mean person, in other words, the average person as opposed to the individual, needs person. You have the same kind of a situation at EBALDC-you’re planning for housing, but not every one of your plans are for each individual need of each individual subset of, person. Talk a little bit about your participation in this board and how that intersects with the work that you do at a EBALDC.
Capri Roth
Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, I came to the organization sort of through, just professional advocacy networking. I, you know, we, we are affordable housers, both and met that way. And I was really interested in the work they were doing. And started, volunteering as a mentor in one of their kind of collective advocacy, collective power building groups that they hosted. And through that, I really just saw sort of this is a really critical missing space in the affordable housing industry. And I can say that as someone who has been not just with the EBALDC, but with other affordable housing developers in my career, where certainly we do think about accessibility in the design of our housing, the programing, but not to your highlight with that kind of really, encompassing and cross disability view. I think, there’s a lot of sort of heavy emphasis on compliance with requirements, which of course, you know, really focuses on mobility, empowerment, kind of first and foremost and on, you know, hearing and visual disability. You know, we think about, oh, how am I going….? What percentage of my units will have, features that accommodate people with these disabilities? And to your highlight, the actual end users in our properties are often times representing a really wide range of, different disabilities or needs-access needs. And, I didn’t I don’t feel like as an industry, affordable houses have the tools that we need to rise and meet that moment. And to really be providing the kind of sort of thriving housing environment that we want to that serves our mission to meet our residents where their needs are. And so, I both wanted to be a resource to The Kelsey as a, you know, experienced developer and with my perspective. But also, I wanted to be more involved so that I could learn from The Kelsey and incorporate a lot of their expertise and learnings into my own work.
Mark
I want to ask you all a question about civil society and what the duty we have as-as members of the civil society to support those who are different than us. It’s a big, big question, right? If I don’t have a disability right now, do I have a responsibility to support somebody who has a disability? What-what is your answer to that, Micaela?
Micaela
So I think I would-I think there is a broader, not disability specific, but a broader expectation of civil society that, you know, all different types of people should be included and cared for, and that a functioning community is one where all different types of people are able to contribute and thrive and have their needs met. I shifted a little bit, though, to-from thinking about disability and disability-forward housing in the sense that we do it as like a responsibility, just because I caution us that, you know, historically we have actually thought of serving people with disabilities as a responsibility, and that’s actually led to things like institutionalization and programs that maybe were seen as part of our responsibility to help. But actually we’re sort of, laced with paternalism or ableism. And so that’s sort of where our concept of disability-forward comes in, which is our belief that actually, by anchoring on the overlooked and unmet housing needs and community services needs of people with disabilities that have been too long overlooked and ignored, when we anchor on those-those issues and make sure they’re not overlooked, we actually create better experiences for all people. And so we’re correcting two…
Mark
You’re correcting two things. I’m sorry for interrupting, but I think you just made two very important points in correcting me. You corrected me in this idea of responsibility. Instead, what you’re saying is, is that there’s an embrace, and it’s a mutual embrace. it’s people embracing each other and-and just meeting each other where, where, where you live. And I think the other-the other, correction that you made is that if we take a look at a strong civil society, right? It’s it’s attitudinal, but it’s also a matter of what does constitute a strong civil society. There’s an attitudinal issue that you corrected, right? Unconscious as it might be. But there’s also this issue of, what does constitute a strong civil society? And does this type of inclusion make us all stronger? And I think those are really very important points. Capri, Justin, do you want to weigh in on-on those topics?
Capri
Yeah. I mean, I think the thing I would add is that, when, people with disabilities have their access needs met, they need that there’s…there’s not a need for someone else to take care of them in the same way, right?. So I think part of the…centering of disability inclusion and, creating, housing and public spaces that are accessible….it…it can shift that dynamic that you’re talking about, that kind of, implied assumption that somebody with a disability needs to be taken care of or needs to be accommodated in some.you know…if you inherently design your programs, your buildings, your landscapes, your transit systems in ways that are accessible, and inclusive, then everyone is able to participate in a-in a more, equal way. And I think that just really opens up that kind of connection building that Micaela was talking about.
Mark
Right, so Justin, when you’re designing something for somebody who, who has a visual impairment as a young person, well, I as an old person could have vision loss. That’s going to help me. right? I as somebody who who, gets sick and might and might, need, different type of access that’s going to help me. You’re, you’re basically designing for everybody, you know, as we go through different circumstances. Right?
Justin
Absolutely. I think that, you know, collaborative, between both, disabled built and disabled led as well as, other professionals, and as well as community members working together to deliver a really inclusive experience is really key. You know, The Kelsey has its own, design standards. And we, we have a partnership with Mikiten Architecture. And within that, we formed a-what’s called a inclusive Design Council collaboration. So we basically prioritize, cross-disability and disability-forward decisions together. And it ultimately resulted in covering over 300 elements, both on the interior and exterior spaces in public spaces. You know, with looking with, how to, design looking at different design choices as well as many of the built features that, built on universal design as well as, features that are also works in operations. I think that with, on the operations side, we can ensure that everyone who is a resident has an inclusive experience, and is welcomed in our spaces as well.
Mark
Micaela, could you, elucidate a little bit on what Justin was talking about, about your design partnerships? That’s right.
Micaela
So, we created something, in partnership with an architect, Erick Mikiten-an inclusive design council of, disabled advocates and designers from across the country. We created in 2021 something called the Inclusive Design Standards. They’re available, open source. And they are a set of guidelines for how to, develop, build and operate inclusive, accessible disability forward housing. And I think a couple of things that are really powerful about them besides what, you know, Justin touched on, which is one that they were really co-created with people with disabilities to hear from folks of, like, what, you know, what actually would make housing better. The second is that they also bring together a bunch of other standards that are out there that maybe about environmental or racial justice or, sustainability and, and bring those through a disability lens. So it’s also like sort of an amalgamation of best practices from a lot of different areas and bringing disability into all of them. And then I think, last but not least, what they get to, And I think this is a really key part of…a key sort of missing piece in affordable housing or really any housing overall is that, you know, often many…when we think about accessibility, we’re really singularly focused on the built environment as it relates to like construction and building components and dwelling units and those all matter. And those are a huge part of our inclusive design standards. And what we heard from people with disabilities is that so much of whether a community is truly accessible and inclusive and affordable has to actually do with bookends in that which are the process of which like a site or, development is conceived. So where a project’s located, what transit is nearby it, who’s on the development team, what are the principles of the building? Who was consulted during the process of design and development that that really impacts a community’s ultimate access and inclusion. And then on the back end is the operations of a building. You know, you can have a really well-intended design and then, you know, you design it and then you operate it, you know, in a more traditional way or without thinking about that intentionality. And then all the work you did in accessibility sort of goes away. And so there’s a whole part of the Inclusive Design Standards around operations and amenities for things like how our services delivered. What is the lease up process like? What supports do residents have? What’s kind of the culture and ethos in the building? What amenities are offered? And so the Inclusive Design Standards really are a comprehensive set of guidelines to think holistically about how to build housing that is accessible from a…from a cross-disability perspective.At all elements of what creates true sort of housing community that.
Mark
In many respects isn’t the work that is being done at The Kelsey.-You’re not only serving people directly-but you’re also sort of the way you seem to function is-is almost as a testing platform for ideas or input or, different sensibilities. And, and, you know, this is not all sweetness and light. There are going to be disagreements amongst different constituents and the approaches that are being taken. But what you’re actually doing is you’re testing these ideas in real time and then sharing them with other people, and then you’re bringing in other experts, right? Architects and so on to make their contributions. Right?
Micaela
Yeah. And I took it to Capri because I think that like, you know, Capri actually has like, brought her team from about see through our community in San Jose and that’s you know really by design at The Kelsey, which is, you know, we’re in a discussion around nonprofits. I think what’s interesting is I get asked on a lot of grants, like what makes your organization unique or the best or different. And I often want to say, I hate that question. I don’t want our organization to be unique or different, maybe the best, because we do like to do what we do really well, but like, we actually want what we do to be out into the field and for other people to take up and actually other people to adopt and internalize as their own and feel like they have as much, you know, stake in ownership in this. Our Chief Housing Officer, Caroline, recently said in a staff meeting, our mission at The Kelsey is not to create disability-forward housing. Our mission is to make sure disability-forward housing gets created. And we want everybody to be doing that, not just us. And so Capri, I think, is a great example of that, where, yes, she sits on The Kelsey board and is incredibly supportive of our work, but is an example of somebody in the field that we hope will take this forward.
Mark
So, Capri, when you’re when you’re looking at, and we know EBALDC, we recruited one of-one of your chief executives in the past. When you look, at the development of, an organization like EBALDC, and you’re looking at your how you’re being informed by your involvement with The Kelsey, how do you take those those two elements and bring them together in a way that allows EBALDC to shift its sensibility, which has happened over time, to embrace some of these ideas and then bring into your organization not only not only some of this…this, expertise, but also have that expertise inform your project priorities and how you go about developing your….your assets.
Capri
Yeah. I mean, it’s a great question because I think, you know, in all candor and Micaela knows this, you know, EBALDC is not…our mission is not to be disability-forward, but we are an inclusive organization. We want to serve our residents’ needs in the best ways we can and, I think what, you know, to Micaela’s point, you know, I took our real estate team on a tour of The Kelsey Ayer Station in San Jose shortly after it opened, and our real estate development team came back very enthused. We have the design standards. We had a project that was just about to go into its design development phase, and we worked with our architect to say, “hey, let’s put these design standards into practice in this.” And it was that ability to look and point to a, you know, real operationalized example and see how this works, and to do it early enough in the process of this development to be able to make a lot of interventions that that were pretty cost neutral way. So rather than trying to throw these on as accessibility, accommodations that we would make, you know, during operations, because we have a resident who needs an accommodation, we can build them into the design upfront and have it be a part of the development, and not really impact our project budgets in ways that ultimately will make the long term operations of the property that much more.hefty.
Mark
As the VP for real estate development, that’s a really interesting point, right? Because your world is about costs, right? It’s about cost allocations, it’s about cost allocations, it’s about efficiency and so on. What you’re basically suggesting is that the more efficient way to do this is to think ahead, integrate into the planning, and you’re saying that in many cases, did I understand this correctly? That these decisions are actually cost neutral if they’re done early enough?
Capri
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there’s I have to say on a, you know, really just dollar for dollar basis, if you make these design decisions early and intentional in the process, the actual cost to construct and, you know, just build out the design is…is really the same. You’re not talking about different cabinets, you’re talking about a different cabinet configuration, right? Like just as an example. So it’s, you know, but…but if you have already installed the cabinets and you have to rip them out and now put in a cabinet that doesn’t have the undersink so that somebody can get in to work at their sink if they have a chair, that’s, that’s the costly part..
Mark
So you get better at the same cost. Justin, do you find this, this also to be the case, you know, at an LA county level, what you’re doing, your planning, are you finding that if you make these decisions early enough that many of these decisions end up being cost neutral, and you get better for less in, in essence.
Justin
Absolutely. Transportation planning, you know, is in different phases and you go through, environmental, we go through design and land acquisition as well as construction. And if we have the budget planned early, with the cost-specific requirements, we can get, you know, close to the on time. And we’re not going to be, spending over our expected budget. I think, what is challenging and especially with larger mega projects that, sometimes we encounter, a utility pole that is blocking, part of a new railway or, something that’s…has to be relocated and that adds costs. But if you do the analysis beforehand, you can kind of negate that cost.
Mark
So, Micaela, we’re…we’re coming to the end of our time. I’d like to get back to Kelsey because I got this sense that when we as human beings talk in theoretical terms, we get worse outcomes. Our thinking is less rigorous than when we talk in personal terms. The thing that really strikes me about the story of Kelsey and your story and the…and the co-founding of this organization, is that you’re able to constantly bring it back to very personal terms. Right. And it seems like your team is always thinking in very personal terms. Can you talk a little bit about sort of the, the culture of an organization that creates that kind of focus? And how do you preserve that…that culture as there is distance between the, the founder’s departure from this world and the organization that continues to thrive. How do you…how do you keep things that present and that grounded in today’s reality?
Micaela
When I think about, you know, you know, talking about things and hypothetical is-I didn’t share at the beginning, but, you know, The Kelsey, from our founding, we often call ourselves a dual mission organization. We build communities and we change systems. And I think when it comes down to things like our systems change work and which includes, you know, our advocacy and our policy change and things like the Inclusive Design Standards and, you know, things like advocating for more federal support for this type of housing, etc., having another part of our team be actually serving people in those models and be a resident facing in a housing development, having that feedback loop between them and and keeping that core to our work and making sure those parts of our mission don’t get too far apart is so critical because we’re able to say, you know, 811 as Justin pointed out, you know, is a critical federal program. And let me tell you about these five residents, and more, you know, who would not have had housing without this program. And I can tell you their name and where they lived before living in this community. And what this program did for them. And I can also tell you about what iwas challenging for them to access, and what could be improved on the program to make it more, you know, impactful or with the Inclusive Design Standards, I can tell you about, you know, a resident in their unit and the fact that living at The Kelsey was the first time they could ever wash their hands, because the counters were structured in a way that they could actually get under their sink and do that.:And here’s the design element that allowed that, and here’s a resident in the story. And so, I think what you touch on is not just, you know, what I’m incredibly proud of is, while Kelsey is a fundamental part of that human story of The Kelsey, and her portrait hangs in the lobby of our building, what’s really powerful is that now, actually the human component of the…of the impact of what we do is, is really in our residents, and we’re able to say, you know, if you make this policy change, I’m not just telling you hypothetically that it could improve people’s lives. I can tell you by name the kinds of people whose lives it would improv,M. and having that sort of, you know, on the ground, you know, you know, expertise from the people who are impacted by it most is, is, I think, so, critically important.
Mark
One of the other things that I really appreciate about all of you is that you’re -you’re not smug in your knowledge. You’re you’re each willing to be informed. And you also are very generous to somebody like me, right? Coming to each topic with…with a bit of ignorance. Right? I’m always talking to people who are smarter than me in different ways and just sort of your your grace and allowing me to ask my sometimes fumble from fumbling questions and then correcting me and making me smarter is really wonderful. So I’d like to thank Micaela Connery, co-founder and CEO of The Kelsey, Justin Tsang, Board Member at The Kelsey, and Capri Roth, board member and EVP of real estate development at East Bay Asian Local Development Corporation. Thank you so much. Please thank your…your fellow board members and your staff, your donors, your constituents. And…and the members of the community, the members of the community who are contributing to shaping the community. That is what community is about. That’s what civil society is about. And we so appreciate you sharing your…your wisdom and insights with us.
Capri
Thanks for having us today. Thank you.
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